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December 12, 2005

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Neil Shakespeare

Hang in there, kid. It's the big picking on the little, the strong on the weak. It's the bully mentality of fear that drives it, I think, be it racism, sexism, money, politics.

The Owner's Manual

Sorry, I couldn't read past your characterization of the first responder as 'foaming.' He is decrying the double standard used against men in law. He doesn't mention what happens to fathers in divorce/custody courts which is another indication of imbalance. As for belittling his grammar and spelling, what do you make of, "that seems to characterize all missive of this sort in place."?

There is some gender hatred on display here, alright. It's easy to spot.

Methinks fat lady doth protest too much.

Jinesh Zaveri

But then, There are a lot of women out there who really hate men. I mean really, really hate them – want them suffering and/or dead hate them and also hate any relatives of that man.

Be it a mother of that man or sister, but are hated because they are related to that man called the husband. Though they are women but they are hated by another women.

This is a fact in a particular part of the world which cannot be ignored too.

pia

As a woman who adores men, I have the utmost respect for most men

But my best friend never officially asked for child support. She wanted to be nice and fair about it. 12 years later she has to take him to court. So what's that about courts? Many men actually prefer it as its taken out of their paycheck for them

DNA? What about the man who was just rearrested after being found committing a crime. DNA is not fool proof, and I fear will cause many problems

But your real problem--you who is "answering TFLS" is an obvious bias against women.

Get real. Yes some women cry rape when there is none. They are the minority

Many women still don't report rape out of shame and for many other reasons.

Incidentally your accusing TFLS of being on welfare is very telling.

Don't expect to be taken seriously if you say such things. If you had any argument at all, it would undermine it.

But when you say boys as young as 12 are paying child support? In what country? Where? Where's the case and citations?

Your entire argument is absurd. "Linebackers" from a woman's shelter?

You wrote specifically to incite, and I don't like that nor would I put up with such comments.

I delete comments like yours from my personal blog; if you wish to "fight me" please go to Bring it on! where I may or may not answer you.

Mary

I have a family member who is like your commenter and our the rest of the family dreads having family gatherings with him. He will say or do anything to make his point-less point, make up facts and false stories. It's an attention seeking disorder, a need to be the center of anything, even conflict. In a family gathering, it is difficult, but on my site, I have the delete option and I use it. I'm not saying if someone disagrees with me, but if someone is obviously suffering from a disorder, they are gone. I don't need that in my life.

Mary

I also remember a woman in Miami who had been brutally raped and then the rapist cut off her arms and left her to die. She didn't and he was caught and tried. When a reporter talked to the woman asking her opionion regarding the sentencing, she replied - That man stole 85 minutes of my life and I won't give him one more split second's thought. He was banished! She became a heroine to many.

Debby

"Linebackers" from women's shelters? Yeah, they used to come when my son's ex used to blacken his eyes and all he would do is restrain her -- funny thing is they were there as his advocates, wanting to know did he want her arrested. He never did. Just wanted her to go away.

Where did this bonehead get his so-called statistics - 45-50% of rapes reported are shams?! He's way out in left field.

Most of the women haters were generally severely abused in childhood by an important maternal figure in their life, a caretaker such as a mother or a grandmother. The abuse was either physical, mental, or sexual, and probably was a combination of two or all three. As they see it, all the woman of the world are out to "get them." You will never change that belief, and ignoring them is the best way to deal with them.

I too have dealt with that kind of vitrolic behavior, and it too was the ex-boyfriend of my best friend right after he had smashed in her cheek bone. He backed down right quickly when he figured out that this was a woman who hit back.

StealthBadger

I had to think hard before I could post. I've never been physically abusive, but the coldness and withdrawal that comes to me too easily is the one form of abuse I've suffered that I haven't yet absolutely managed to prevent myself from passing on to others. Yet.

There is a great deal of anger and fear in heterosexual men. For those seeking to affirm male privilege, fear that the world described to them as "ideal" will never be theirs. For those trying to find their own way, fear that nothing they do or are will let them move out of the shadow of those who would rather return to the days of Marriage As Ownership; their frustration often makes them lash out in ways that in the end are similar to the abusers. There are men who just want to be quietly left the hell alone, and they see any participation in the discussion as a loss, because men are supposed to act and do, not passively withdraw. Men who have a strong submissive side have it the worst, because they're easy prey for everyone seeking to vent their frustrations at a ready target. The fear? That nothing will be good enough.

Objectification is the root of it, the idea that someone can become someTHING ownable. It's true, beat someone down far enough, or put them through enough pain, and they'll do literally anything to survive, to please the abuser enough to have the certainty of drawing another breath, or perhaps a moment of solitude. And once you've been crushed down, a part of you never forgets that violence works, if you don't give a damn about forever altering what you use it on, and forever destroying the chance of this human being ever seeing you as human.

How abuse breeds is when that part of you will want to unleash that hurt on someone else, transferring that feeling of powerlessness to someone else, so you can pretend you don't know what it feels like for a while.

Then there are what I consider the really sick fuckers; the ones who never have known helplessness, but who see those who have as somehow being weaker, and deserving of being controlled. I don't understand them well, but I suspect their anger comes when they percieve a human as an object that stubbornly refuses to act like property.

Why do abusers, rapists, and killers act this way? Overgeneralizing, because they either fear and hate the knowledge of powerlessness inside them, or they fear and hate the shadow of doubt that they might not after all be an irresistible force.

Not saying (or lessening) anything felt by any victim. Just answering the question. Not excusing, just explaining. And sure as hell not enjoying any part of this.

oldwhitelady

Luckily, for me, I've never had to endure an abusive partner. My sister, on the other hand, had 2 abusive husbands. She finally got out of the first marriage when he was beating on her, and when she was about to hit back, he grabbed the baby and held her in front of him.

The second punched sis in the mouth when she was lying on the couch. Her head was on the armrest and there was no give. He broke a tooth. She called us and a wonderful family friend took off through the night to get her, daughter, cat, and small amount of clothes. He brought her back to my place where she was able get situated to start over.

Abusive relationships are terrible. It's sad when women (and men) stay in those type situations for fear of being pursued, fear that they let down the family, or any other reason. There is no call for abuse against another person. There is no call for someone to stay in that type of relationship.

As far as the statistics quoted above on the amount of false rape accusations, I say bullcrap. Where did that commenter get his data? Link please. I agree that there is obviously an hatred against the female sex. Unfortunate. Stay away from women if you hate them.

WOW, I am deeply concerned about the blatant hatred towards men in these posts and the conspicuous lack of comprehension of that fact and evidence that the posters themselves display of the abuse towards men and in particular boys by women (especially a maternal influence) and then have the audacity to ask why men are angry with women. The response to this was to ignore these women haters when it was in fact a woman or women who set the ball in motion, ignoring to address the problem that maternal people in their lives turned them on to women hating. Hummmm. How convenient.

There is also cart banc dismissal of facts that male posters bring up by asking for proof. Conversely there is a cart banc acceptance of similar statements accepted by women. Additionally if it is a fact or from a source you do not like you admittedly delete the blog, which taints the facts. Examples

“But when you say boys as young as 12 are paying child support? In what country? Where? Where's the case and citations?”

“Where did this bonehead get his so-called statistics - 45-50% of rapes reported are shams?! He's way out in left field.” How quickly we forget that Douglass Forbes was accused of 3 rapes taken to court for 2, sentenced to 50 years for one, and 10 years for another and innocent of both.

“I also remember a woman in Miami who had been brutally raped and then the rapist cut off her arms and left her to die”

I ask you know where can this be found? Give me the case, paper, county, court, etc.

What upsets me even more is the juvenile attack of the posters by women the “name calling” rather than dealing with the issue these women posters seem to try to verbally castrate the male posters. You asked for opinions now please do not flame me.

Maybe if this site become a place for civil discussion rather than a bait and trap man bashing site I can supply the readers with more incite to why some men feel the way that they do, it all depends on future responses.

Quote from a great movie “You can’t handle the truth!” A Few Good Men (1992) Col. Nathan R. Jessep

Bernie

last post by

Bernie

[quote]Where did this bonehead get his so-called statistics - 45-50% of rapes reported are shams?! He's way out in left field.


Posted by: Debby | December 12, 2005 at 08:39 PM[/quote]

1992In 1990 and 1991 women in [Seven Washington DC area jurisdictions] filed 1,842 rape reports and police concluded that 439 were unfounded. One woman said that she needed an excuse for having been late for work.

That is 24% in this instance, that makes me feel MUCH better. These numbers DO NOT reflect the number of men found not guilty in court. This could easily bring the percentage to 45 like the poster stated.

Washington Post June 27,
1992

Bernie

A study by Eugene J Kanin PhD pf Perdue University found 41 per cent to be false; two samples analyzed by Vharles P McDowell Phd of the US Air Force of special investications found 27 per cent and 60 percent false. Hummmmm Again the 45-50 per cent seems very reasonable.

Blitzgal

Okay, I have to weigh in on this issue of false rape reports. A large percentage of all rapes that are committed go unreported. The victims are embarrassed, they blame themselves, they just want it to go away, etc. Those rapes can never be quantified by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, obviously. On the other hand, 100% of false rape reports are quantifiable...if a person is making a false report, it's obviously in the official record. Do you see how this would inflate the percentage of "offically reported" rapes that are found to be false?

I also have to point out that I am in agreement with the fact that both men and women can be and are victims of rape, and that it is just as much of a crime when a woman takes advantage of a male child as it is when the situation is reversed. However, simply talking about the issue of violence against women does not automatically mean that the speaker is discounting the experiences of anyone else.

ginmar

I love the commenters who read the post, then go right ahead and demonstrate TFLS's point by being lying, clueless, bastards.

JHH

Greetings.

1. Please ladies and gentlement, don't generalize case studies.
2. "Most of the women haters were generally severely abused in childhood by an important maternal figure in their life, a caretaker such as a mother or a grandmother." I would like to point out that 70% of male victims are abused by MEN. (ICASA's Advocacy Manual 10/2000)
3. According to the FBI, a woman is raped every 6 minutes int eh United States (ICASA's Advocacy Manual 10/2000)
4. Rape is still recognized as one of the most underreported crimes; estimates suggest that only 1 in 7 rapes are reported to authorities (ICASA's Advocacy Manual 10/2000)
5. Rape is about Power, not about Sex. Sex is used as a tool.

luna_the_cat

I know I'm coming to this discussion quite late, but I thought you might want links to some relevant info, as the topic will no doubt crop up again.

Some official, reputable, well-controlled sources are the NCVS, the National Crime Victimization Survey ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm , http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NCVS/ ) and the FBI's Uniform Crime Report ( http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm ). There are some profound differences in how rape is reported in these two compilations, mainly that the UCR *only* classes male-female vaginal penetration as rape, and anything else as "sexual assault", whereas the NCVS counts same-sex rape and penetration with an object as rape; and the UCR only deals with crimes which have been reported, whereas the NCVS is designed to catch crimes which have not been reported. An excellent overall analysis of rape reporting is here: http://www.vawnet.org/SexualViolence/PublicPolicy/MakingSenseofRape.pdf

An interesting examination of the subject in the state of Texas is here: http://www.house.state.tx.us/committees/reports/77interim/criminal_juris.pdf -- and they make an observation also made elsewhere,

False rape allegations have proven to be a concern for many individuals in law
enforcement. When asked to estimate what percentage of rape cases turned out to be false,
respondents reported figures as high as 85%. However, the FBI indicates that for the past
decade, unfounded forcible rapes have accounted for less than 9% of all reported cases. In
addition, the FBI has no statistics to indicate that false reports for rape are higher than any other
crimes included in the UCR.
The inflated estimates of false sexual assault allegations from law enforcement may stem
from the ambiguity regarding the definition of "unfounded." Federal reporting requirements
mandate that sexual assault cases are considered "unfounded" only if they are determined to be
false or baseless. It is not uncommon for law enforcement to erroneously unfound cases because
the victim, recants, cannot be located, alters his/her account of the rape, or is uncooperative.
Many departments "unfound" cases when they should actually be using administrative clearance.
In cases where the offender is identified, but cannot be charged or the victim refuses to
cooperate, "exceptional clearance" should be used. When reporting procedures were reformed in
several large law enforcment departments, including NYCPD, unfounded cases dropped from
15% to 2% (TAASA, 2002).

Votokh's study found a "false report" incidence of 41%, by focussing on one small midwestern town and counting as false (as far as I could tell) cases where the victim later recanted or refused to cooperate with prosecution. I would like to note from personal experience, that (ESPECIALLY in a small town) these things can often be the result of intimidation or pressure not to prosecute from either the perpetrator or friends/relatives of the perpetrator, as well as from the victim's own family if they feel it would bring the victim and/or the family into "disrepute". As such, uncritically taking a recantation/failure to cooperate with police as indication of a false report is poor practice. As has been pointed out elsewhere, a false report can only be properly and certainly classed as a false report where there has been a thorough investigation and positive evidence that the allegation is false is unearthed. Otherwise, the correct classification is "unprosecutable". And, following proper guidelines, there is indeed no evidence at all that rape has any higher an incidence of false reporting than any other crime (and considerably lower than some crimes). On the other hand, there is considerable evidence for the underreporting of actual rapes; more information on the links above.

FWIW.

Amoranthus

Well, StealthBadger asked for statistics and links, so I went out and found some.
I'm an American living in Australia. If you folks think things are confused back in the states, try living in a country that has no Bill of Rights and doesn't even pretend to be religious.

What is commonly taught young lawyers and other students is that only 2% of rape reports are false. That figure is said to be the same for any other crime report.
It doesn't take a degree in psychiatry to know that is a blow-off line... But what are the real figures? Who knows?


Here are some of the stats that are driving the rants about false rape allegations, from Ananda Answers

James Anderson is doing hard time in an Oregon State Penitentiary for a rape he didn’t commit. In his recently published Falling on the Deaf Ear: Understanding the Growing False Accusations of Rape Crisis in the US, and How to Stop It, Anderson builds a troubling case. Following are a few examples from hundreds of references.

• Citing a recent USA Today article, discussing the miracle of DNA and FBI studies of sexual assault suspects, DNA testing exonerated about 30 percent to 35 percent of the more than 4,000 sexual assault suspects on whom the FBI had conducted DNA testing over the past three years.

• In the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit’s study of False Allegations conducted in 1983 of 556 rape investigations, a total of 220 (40%) of these reported rapes turned out to be false. Over one fourth of these 556 turned out to be hoaxes. And yet, some feminists and rape counselors claim that only two percent of rape reports are false.

• Linda Fairstein, who directs the prosecution of sexual assault in New York, says that there are approximately 4,000 reports of rape each year in Manhattan. Of these, about half simply did not happen. Says Fairstein, “It’s my job to bring justice to the man who has been falsely accused by a woman who has a grudge against him, just as it’s my job to prosecute the real thing.”

• In New Zealand, police officials have stated that 64 percent of rape reports are false and that some women are making a business out of being raped, collecting sometimes up to $10,000 compensation per case.

• The FBI stated that in 1990 over 8,500 of the rapes reported proved to be false. False reports of child abuse were twice that figure.

In Australia and New Zealand, if you are a victim of a crime the state gives you an arbitrary payout.

In contrast, from the Law Professors' Blogs site:

The other articles in this area which caught my attention are about an Ohio case in which my co-blogger Mark Godsey is counsel.

A man is serving a long sentence for rape in spite of the absence of any physical evidence connecting him to the crime.

According to a Cleveland Plain Dealer editorial on Sunday supporting an expedited parole hearing, the inmate has passed a voice stress test while asserting his innocence and the victim has repeatedly failed the same test, and the victim's former boyfriend "has come forward to say she has a history of self-mutilation in attempts to gain attention."

According to the paper, the victim now claims that "she actually died during the attack and was brought back to life by Snow White," which suggests she may be an unreliable reporter.

CC Coleman

I think I'll stick with Dave Sim and Elvis Costello's views on this topic.

www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/sim.html

Confusing rape with misogyny and making both (almost) a capital crime is a mistake.

In some women's eyes I am worse than a rapist as I dismiss and ignore the bleating and spot opportunistic parasites in the crowd.

I am all for equality; when men are equal to women in this society and given the same justice.

CC Coleman

More examples by Mr. Sim to this effect ...

1. A mother who works a full-time job and delegates to strangers the raising of her children eight hours a day, five days a week does just as good a job as a mother who hand-rears her children full time.

2. It makes great sense for the government to pay 10 to 15,000 dollars a year to fund a daycare space for a child so its mother – who pays perhaps 2,000 dollars in taxes – can be a contributing member of society.

3. A woman's doctor has more of a valid claim to participate in the decision to abort a fetus than does the father of that fetus.

4. So long as a woman makes a decision after consulting with her doctor, she is incapable of making an unethical choice.

5. A car with two steering wheels, two gas pedals and two brakes drives more efficiently than a car with one steering wheel, one gas pedal and one brake which is why marriage should always be an equal partnership.

6. It is absolutely necessary for women to be allowed to join or participate fully in any gathering place for men, just as it is absolutely necessary that there be “women only” environments from which men are excluded.

7. Because it involves taking jobs away from men and giving them to women, affirmative action makes for a fairer and more just society.

8. It is important to have lower physical standards for women firepersons and women policepersons so that, one day, half of all firepersons and policepersons will be women, thus more effectively protecting the safety of the public.

9. Affirmative action at colleges and universities needs to be maintained now that more women than men are being enrolled, in order to keep from giving men an unfair advantage academically.

10. Having ensured that there is no environment for men where women don't belong (see no.6) it is important to have zero tolerance of any expression or action which any woman might regard as sexist to ensure greater freedom for everyone.

11. Only in a society which maintains a level of 95% of alimony and child support being paid by men to women can men and women be considered as equals.

12. An airline stewardess who earned $20,000 a year at the time that she married a baseball player earning $6 million a year is entitled, in the event of a divorce, to $3 million for each year of the marriage and probably more.

13. A man's opinions on how to rear and/or raise a child are invalid because he is not the child's mother. However, his financial obligation is greater because no woman gets pregnant by herself.

14. Disagreeing with any of these statements makes you anti-woman and/or a misogynist.

This should stir things up ... LOL!

hateisnonsense

I used to get upset about sites and groups that displayed a hatred of women, especially soc.men, until I found a site where the posters hated horses. They used the same comments and techniques, pointing out what they thought was ugly about the physical aspect of the horse or ugliness of the the horse's natural behavior, in addition to using foul language and pictures and expressing the desire to kill and hurt horses. Now I just think about that horse hating site and know that the people who feel this way about anyone or anything are just not right in the head.

zapatahahahaha

ahhh you all waisting your time

women are simply not human
i swear its true

i have no idea where they are from

bill

interesting ,heres a 47 year old guys point of view.having slept with over 300 women in my life i think i have an idea of what women like.also im just a regular nobody for the record.first most women do like rough sex and have willing helped to make my fantasies come true.also im talking all walks of life in the area of women.from the top head of companies to the store clerk.you like these nasty fantasies.the reason we hate you is because most of you are so full of shit ,it is ridiculous.not all but alot of you are diabolical,sneaky,deceitful,and rotten deep down inside.given the oppurtunity alot of you will cheat on your spouse or bf at the drop of a dime.you expect us to make you happy when you cant be happy with yourself anyway.you think all men are stupid and you do have an advantage over us in the social skills department,but some of us men have your number and deep down you cant stand it that you have no control over us select few.your pussy is your main draw.basically thats it.with out it you would have nothing.you k now it and i know it.im sure some women reading this will say hes never matured in life.lol,ya ok if that makes you feel better.thats why us slick men have devised these complicated scenarios to get in your pants through the ages.men wont tell you they hate you ,that would be like removeing all the oil in the world and saying okay get along with out it,there would be a global shutdown.we begin lying to you the day we begin puberty.that last until we die.you have also taught me how to be extremely devious in aquiringy what i want from you.you also never take a vacation from your mind ,your always scheming,even when your what some say is the most romantic situation.you want everything and are satisfied with nothing.i find marriage to be a joke,i never married because when i said will you sign a pre nup you said whyyyyyyyyyyyyy i love you.lol...ya and 6 months later you marry someone else.thats real deep.you call other women sluts when they sleep around but when you do it you call it romance.i see so many guys dieing a slow suicide in there marrigages.as far as fat women go well,i could throw up thinking about it.fat women bring this to a whole new level.i couldnt even get a hard on with a fat moose.the only guys who like fat women are guys that cant get skinny women or want to controll the shit out of them or want someone to do all the work.(ya think some 90lb broad is goona take out the trash????)i dont think so either.also i cant see myself in an argument,screaming and being yelled at by some fat ,lumbering,fat roll,who tells me if i dont change my attitude im not gonna get any sex...lol.when i have seen this i laugh hysterically inside.id rosie oddonell wanted sex from me i wouldnt donate to a sperm bank on her account.theres probably alot of SERIAL KILLING FAT WOMEN THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT YET??man fat women hate skinny women.my brother in law is married to my fat angry sister.she is a menace to the earth.fat,angry and crazy.wow.i moved to another state to get away from them.also i think its repulsive to sleep with someone whos arms and legs and ass are bigger than mine.your best cute ,quiet and sitting in the corner.skinny women like to hang with fat women so they look prettier.fat women like to get the skinny girls crumbs.thats like black guys who hang with white guys they do it to get at the white women.this is not speculation this is fact.anyway i see how fat women hate me.i think they know what im thinking..lol..

Xena

I have read so many comments on both sides and sadly this is truly the end of western society. Both sexes hate each other and wish death to each other. The fault lies in both sexes.

Theresa

1. Men are better that women, Men are better without women, and Things We Hate About Women.- Now I've just gotten out of a bad realasonship. I wanted hear men saying good things about Women, because my trust and live had been betrayed inwas NO ONE would like. Get this no one likes getting hurt why are you trying to hurt people. When you talk how rape is bull$*** and then how men are being miss treated in the jury room. How can you? What women actually get raped and a scared to talk because no one will believe her . Saying she's lying is the same as saying he's lying(I DO believe men can and have been raped by women) Face this though statics don't lie women ARE sexually abused more and with more death(most will never be salve and no justice). Remeber the tragedies of the past or be damned to relive them. Women ask things like "Are there even men who want happiness like me?" it whould be nice to hear at least a little "yes" now and again.

2. Porn - really not supprised there.

3. Men Talking about women good quality - what i really needed to hear guys thankyou VERY much to you. for the nice men- www.deanesmay.com/archives/004674.html -Nice to know the GOOD GUYS live. *hugs*

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